There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Re: Internal metronome
From: Jim Brewster <jim@jimbrewster.net>
2. Re: internal metronome
From: Abbottjebes@aol.com
3. Seattle drum classes
From: Tyler Richart <tylerinafrica@yahoo.com>
4. Re: Internal metronome
From: Reverend R Clark <clark@acceleration.net>
5. RE: Re: Internal metronome
From: "Steven Scheberle" <spscheberle@sbcglobal.net>
6. Re: Re: Internal metronome
From: "Taiwo Adelaja" <taiadelaja@hotmail.com>
7. Re: Re: Internal metronome
From: Lindsay Rowlands <lrowland@metz.une.edu.au>
8. Re: Internal metronome
From: bones45991@aol.com
9. Re: Re: Internal metronome
From: Lindsay Rowlands <lrowland@metz.une.edu.au>
10. Re: Re: Internal metronome
From: "Olushola" <balagi@starpower.net>
11. Re: Re: Internal metronome
From: Jim Brewster <jim@jimbrewster.net>
12. Re: Internal metronome
From: AK <aldaron@aaahawk.com>
13. Internally anchored rhythmic sense
From: "Christine Hopkins" <ch2yes@yahoo.com>
14. Re: Internal metronome
From: "Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@earthlink.net>
15. Re: Internal metronome
From: "bor_slana" <bor_slana@yahoo.com>
16. RE: Re: Internal metronome
From: "Ernesto Gutierrez Barrero" <ernestogut90@hotmail.com>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:55:52 -0500
From: Jim Brewster <jim@jimbrewster.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Internal metronome
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:37:14 +0100
Merlin <Merlin@silvercircle.org> wrote:
The african method of teaching is by copying without further
instruction. What we must realise in the west, is that the african who
teaches, and the african from the same culture who hears the part,
will in the background hear the full song and see the full dance,
since they know it already. We don't. We need instruction so we get
the part right, without knowing yet what comes in between. So I firmly
believe that it is a matter of giving people the "framework" as well
upon which the rhythm is built, and that is a matter of teaching
skill.
I have seen many african teachers say that you must "feel" the rhythm
and then it will come naturally to you. But we in the west cannot feel
a rhythm that we haven't heard before, and where we don't see the
dance in our mind's eye. We know how a straight 4-beat rhythm feels,
it is our pop-music culture. We also know how 6/8 feels, Uhm-pa Uhm-pa
or skipping on the sidewalk...
This is a great point, and suggests at least two possible solutions:
1) Encourage students to become familiar with the rhythms before
attempting to play them. Traditionally this meant years of the rhythms
being part of your aural landscape, but throwing on a CD while cleaning
the house one weekend, or taking every opportunity to see an African
dance performance, might be enough to get them under your skin.
2) Teach Western rhythms, with which the student is already familiar.
Many of these (rock, hip-hop, swing, etc.) have hybrid African roots and
will help the student connect to the African pulse running through
Western music. (I realize that this might be frowned upon by some
traditionalists.)
Apart from all this, if you are serious about djembe, it helps to buy
a metronome and use it to practice. It will make you aware of where
you "naturally" speed up because you will notice that the metronome is
slowing down - which it isn't of course :-))
While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend a good metronome?
Namely one that is loud enough to cut through drums (or electric guitars
for that matter), or one with a jack that can be played through an amp
or headphones?
Regards,
Jim
--
Jim Brewster
jim@jimbrewster.net
http://www.jimbrewster.net/
"You have to be out of your mind to come to your senses."
--Fritz Perls
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:36:57 -0500
From:
Abbottjebes@aol.com
Subject: Re: internal metronome
While I'm not familiar with Ta Ke Ti Na 's methods, I have taken some workshops with frame drummer Glen Velez, and his methods for instilling internal pulse is really great. (I think his method is called handance?" Any method which links polyrythm to a body movement which establishes the metronome is very effective. On its most basic level this can be tapping the foot or moving the head in time with "the beat." band teachers everywhere get their students tapping their feet together from the start. Another effective method is marching or walking in time with the pulse. I can vouch for this method based on my many years of marching band. Tying the pulse to a physical measurement literally gets you "feeling" the pulse. Once a person can hold the pulse steady with feet, and play more syncopated rythms on top of that, they've got it made. Most music teachers take this very slowly, work from the quarter note pulse, then work on clapping whole note, half note, quarter note, eights, clapping up-beats, sixteenths, and then combining different rythmic values together to create syncopated patterns. In terms of Western music education, African rythms are pretty darn complicated and not something a student would even get close to for a few years. Many people do not have and need a basic rythmic foundation. Even in Africa, a student may only play a downbeat on a bell or sticks before they are allowed to play a simple drum part with the group. That way they are used to hearing first the pulse, and then as that becomes automatic, all the other parts in relationship to that pulse.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:39:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Tyler Richart
<tylerinafrica@yahoo.com>
Subject: Seattle drum classes
Greetings,
I'm writing to inform you of two new classes in the
Capitol Hill area of Seattle on Sundays
starting Sunday, February 22nd. NEW SPECIAL HAND
DRUM SOLOING AND IMPROVISATION CLASS BEING OFFERED!!!
The first will be a special class offered to
intermediate hand drummers. This class will teach
fundamentals of playing lead drum, soloing and
improvising. We will spend lots of time each week
working on technique, sound, and clarity, with each of
us getting a time to improvise in class and share
ideas about shaping and building solos. Step out of
playing your crutch phrases over and over, and start
telling stories with your instrument! Please have a
strong understanding of tones and slaps. Some
knowledge of "playing out of the roll" handing systems
is definitely helpful, but we will discuss this in
great detail.
This class begins at 1PM and goes until 2:30
The second class is a intermediate/advanced class that
will focus on timing, technique, djembe parts and solo
phrases, dunun parts and variations, arrangements and
breaks, and singing (both traditional songs in
Malinke, and learning the drum parts through
singing). Come learn traditional music of the Malinke
people of Guinea, West Africa!!!
This class begins at 3PM and goes until 4:30
Class size is very limited (6 per class). Cost is $60
for the six week session. Reply to me directly to
reserve your space and receive directions.
Bio:
Tyler Richart has been studying music since childhood,
but for the past several years, he has focused on
traditional djembe and dunun music and the 21-string
West African harp, the kora. He has travelled and
studied extensively in Guinea, and The Gambia, West
Africa with such teachers as Famoudou Konate,
Souloumane Keita, Moriba Kuyateh, and Malamini
Jobarteh. He is an experienced, patient teacher, and
his classes are fun and dynamic.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:45:52 -0500
From: Reverend R Clark
<clark@acceleration.net>
Subject: Re: Internal metronome
Greetings Folks!
What a marvelous thread, although my lack of formal training surely permits
me a quite limited grasp of what is being discussed especially as concerns
the time signatures. I probably have an idea what these representations
"feel" like and no doubt use them in my own way.
To perhaps further cloud the issue it seems the concept of "micro-timing"
must play a role in all of this and is probably why some ones have spoken
to the limited ability of time signatures to represent actual play. Please
correct me if I am wrong and playing slightly early or late in relation to
the pulse is responsible for much of that which we loosely call "feel,"
isn't it? The "handing" of particular rhythms as taught and insisted upon
by certain African Masters I've studied with, is often deliberately awkward
to assist one in maintaining the micro-timing, I believe. Other teachers
are quite unconcerned about how a particular rhythm is done as long as it
is correct and true.
I enjoy playing to a "click track" or metronome, playing with others or
even recorded music of all sorts, fitting in what I know to play. When my
hand comes down on the same spot in a musical phrase consistently it's very
comforting and confirms my feeling that I am correct in my apprehension of
a particular expression.
Surely I've said it here before and will again as I am constantly saying it
to myself at tough moments in my life, "I am open to this being effortless,
too." This Helps me more than anything else, save repeating ultra-simple,
one word mantras like "Love" or "Peace" and the like, over and over
rhythmically.
My 2% self-expressed.
Thanks for Everything!
Drumming Peace, R
<http://home.acceleration.net/clark/DrumO/Drum0.html>
++++++
"If at first you don't succeed,
keep sucking until you do succeed.
Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk."
-Curly of the Three Stooges.
"By your stumbling, the world is perfected."
~Sri Aurobindo
"A mind is a terrible thing,
........................................Waste IT."
- Brad Blanton
"Lose your mind and come to your senses."
-Fritz Perls
"Mind over Matter, If you don't mind it doesn't matter."
- ?
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very
wasteful. How true that is."
- Former US Vice President Dan Quayle, 5/9/89
"When the mind is exhausted in trying
to find the answer, the answer dawns."
~ Vernon Howard
"Be yourself, the folks that mind don't matter;
The folks that do matter won't mind."
- Dr. Seuss
++++++
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (
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Version: 6.0.574 / Virus Database: 364 - Release Date: 1/29/2004
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:19:05 -0600
From: "Steven Scheberle"
<spscheberle@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Internal metronome
Jim,
I have been using a BOSS DB-66 for about fourteen years. It has a
jack that you can plug into headphones. The volume is loud and should work
for practice. I haven't used it for live music though. It has a volume
control and a "beat" volume control. It will do quarter notes, eights,
sixteenth, and triplets. The triplets of course can be considered sextuplets
though. Each one of those note values also has a volume control on it as
well. That way you can have an underlying sixteenth note pulse and a
dominant triplet thing going on loud over the top.
Thank you for your time,
Steven
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brewster [
mailto:jim@jimbrewster.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:56 AM
To:
djembe-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Djembe-L] Re: Internal metronome
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:37:14 +0100
Merlin
<Merlin@silvercircle.org> wrote:
The african method of teaching is by copying without further
instruction. What we must realise in the west, is that the african who
teaches, and the african from the same culture who hears the part,
will in the background hear the full song and see the full dance,
since they know it already. We don't. We need instruction so we get
the part right, without knowing yet what comes in between. So I firmly
believe that it is a matter of giving people the "framework" as well
upon which the rhythm is built, and that is a matter of teaching
skill.
I have seen many african teachers say that you must "feel" the rhythm
and then it will come naturally to you. But we in the west cannot feel
a rhythm that we haven't heard before, and where we don't see the
dance in our mind's eye. We know how a straight 4-beat rhythm feels,
it is our pop-music culture. We also know how 6/8 feels, Uhm-pa Uhm-pa
or skipping on the sidewalk...
This is a great point, and suggests at least two possible solutions:
1) Encourage students to become familiar with the rhythms before
attempting to play them. Traditionally this meant years of the rhythms
being part of your aural landscape, but throwing on a CD while cleaning
the house one weekend, or taking every opportunity to see an African
dance performance, might be enough to get them under your skin.
2) Teach Western rhythms, with which the student is already familiar.
Many of these (rock, hip-hop, swing, etc.) have hybrid African roots and
will help the student connect to the African pulse running through
Western music. (I realize that this might be frowned upon by some
traditionalists.)
Apart from all this, if you are serious about djembe, it helps to buy
a metronome and use it to practice. It will make you aware of where
you "naturally" speed up because you will notice that the metronome is
slowing down - which it isn't of course :-))
While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend a good metronome?
Namely one that is loud enough to cut through drums (or electric guitars
for that matter), or one with a jack that can be played through an amp
or headphones?
Regards,
Jim
--
Jim Brewster
jim@jimbrewster.net
http://www.jimbrewster.net/
"You have to be out of your mind to come to your senses."
--Fritz Perls
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:55:05 -0500
From: "Taiwo Adelaja"
<taiadelaja@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Internal metronome
Hi Jim,
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:37:14 +0100 you wrote:
"can anyone recommend a good metronome? Namely one that is loud
enough to cut through drums (or electric guitars for that matter), or
one with a jack that can be played through an amp or headphones?*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say:
I heartily recommend the Qwik-Tune QT-5, which can be had for about
10 bucks at Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com). If you're looking for
the cheapest, most unobstrusive and most functional metronome for the
price, this one's it. It's a credit-card sized unit with a 40-250 bpm range,
audible click sound, earphone jack, included battery, low battery indicator
and a rudimentary tuner. Step up to the QT-7 for 20 bucks if you must
have variable time signatures, accented beats, a "wood block" click and
more. For 30 bucks, the MA-30, a digital metronome, has volume control,
advanced rhythms, reference pitches and tap tempo capability.
My QT-5 lives in my shirt pocket and is handy for workshops and circles,
but I eventually graduated to the MA-30 for my home studio. Both work
perfectly, and find the headphone jack to be by far the most compelling
feature of both units (besides the price).
Then again, there's a whole universe of metronomes out there. You might
find something that better fits your lifestyle or workstyle. Take a peek at
offerings at Sound Professionals (soundprofessionals.com) as well.
Hope this helps
cheers,
Tai
_________________________________________________________________
Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your
online time.
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:26:35 +1100
From: Lindsay Rowlands
<lrowland@metz.une.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re: Internal metronome
Let me first say that this response is not a reaction to or critique of
the
dear Rev's post, merely a launching pad for my own thoughts, so please
take no
offense.
On 13/02/2004, at 7:45 AM, Reverend R Clark wrote:
Greetings Folks!
What a marvelous thread, although my lack of formal training surely
permits
me a quite limited grasp of what is being discussed especially as
concerns
the time signatures. I probably have an idea what these representations
"feel" like and no doubt use them in my own way.
To perhaps further cloud the issue it seems the concept of
"micro-timing"
must play a role in all of this and is probably why some ones have
spoken
to the limited ability of time signatures to represent actual play.
Please
correct me if I am wrong and playing slightly early or late in
relation to
the pulse is responsible for much of that which we loosely call "feel,"
isn't it?
I have to disagree and it is a common and simplistic deconstruction of
what
is more than just deliberate loose timing. Now, no one, but no one plays
exactly - within microseconds - of a pulse regularly. This is due to the
limits of our capacity to accurately judge these small intervals of
time,
both as players and listeners. So, while it can be shown (see Rainer
Polak)
that in particular traditions there seems to be a deliberate delaying of
strokes on certain pulses, I wish to assert that this does not equate to
'feel'. Certainly, aspects of the way time is constituted in the music
contribute to 'feel', but I argue that the use of timbre, amplitude and
pulse implication are equally as important. Further, the way a player
embodies a rhythm - moves their hands/arms/head/torso/feet, etc in
relation
to the music - is also a vital contribution to the apprehension of the
subjective judgement of 'feel'. Similarly, our personal state of
wellbeing/
openness/consciousness, etc at the time of listening are also crucial.
It seems reasonable to consider too that a single player is more likely
to
inspire the notion of 'feel', while an ensemble of 'feel' players will
give rise to something else.
The "handing" of particular rhythms as taught and insisted upon
by certain African Masters I've studied with, is often deliberately
awkward
to assist one in maintaining the micro-timing, ...
I assert that handing, apart from allowing efficient and fluid execution
of rhythms, also has timbral significance. That is, mixing up hands just
doesn't sound right, measured against cultural norms.
I enjoy playing to a "click track" or metronome, playing with others or
even recorded music of all sorts, fitting in what I know to play. When
my
hand comes down on the same spot in a musical phrase consistently it's
very
comforting and confirms my feeling that I am correct in my
apprehension of
a particular expression.
It is rather bleak that so many people seem to think that playing to
a metronome is a good and enjoyable thing. It may be a good drill and
exercise,
but it isn't music - let's keep that in perspective. I also find it
depressing
that it seems widely accepted that music is being made when the right
notes are
played at the right time. Words are certainly inadequate when
attempting to
relate abstract notions, but I'll do my best. I really would like to
get across
the concept that music is socially constituted, that is, people make
music
and they make it best when making it together. This is so present in
African
music as to be self-evident. African music has as its primary focus, the
interrelation of the musical parts, song, dance and the larger rhythms
of
life. So, I believe we only 'get' it, when we play with others. Playing
and
relating to a metronome is like taking a shower with a raincoat! But if
it
helps in the process of arriving at the point where we 'get' it, then it
is I suppose, valid. Just make sure you don't get stuck there.
In my workshops, I aim to expose repeatedly those around me to clear and
accessible playing. If necessary I will break a rhythm into digestible
fragments and use them as drills, but I never use counting. It creates a
distraction away from the focus of what the music means and gets people
caught up in states that preclude an interrelative dialogue.
Surely I've said it here before and will again as I am constantly
saying it
to myself at tough moments in my life, "I am open to this being
effortless,
too." This Helps me more than anything else, save repeating
ultra-simple,
one word mantras like "Love" or "Peace" and the like, over and over
rhythmically.
I live to play music in a state of conscious mindlessness
(thoughtless). To
be able to make music with people well allows me to let go of the
thoughts
that create my private reality and to exist for brief moments in pure
musical
and social harmony. That is where I also reaffirm that words uttered or
thought
are absolutely unnecessary to being and communicating. That's my
effortlessness.
Much love, cheerz,
Lynzz
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:46:06 EST
From: bones45991@aol.com
Subject: Re: Internal metronome
What a great topic and I am enjoying it thoroughly but I have to ask:
Is there really 'perfect' timing in drumming? And by that I don't mean
perfect perfect down to the mini-macro-micro-milli-second like from some
supercomputer, but I raise this issue because I have listened to a number of West African
CD's and played a metronome along with it to find out what bpm(beats per
minute) they're playing at and I find that there are often discrepencies within
the playing. It might go for 30 seconds right on beat but then it gets off for
15 to 20 seconds and then back on beat again. Or it just changes from say 70
bpm's to 71 bpms. And it's not because of a tempo change or pattern change. Same
rhythm, same pattern, very slight differences in the timing. It's nothing I
ever heard by my own ear listening to the music but I only noticed this when
playing a metronome along with it. So even those who have grown up around
drumming all their lives, while on the outside it sounds like perfect timing, there
are slight differences in timing that we cannot hear. So I guess that being
said, if we cannot hear the slight differences ourselves, it shouldn't matter.
Interesting nonetheless.
As to what can be done to help with one's own timing, for me I find
that playing rhythms along with a metronome while tapping the foot helps
significantly. Even without a metronome the tapping of the foot helps to manifest a
physical sense of timing. Or bobbing the head or swaying back and forth while
playing. I also just listen to a lot of music and rhythms and try to engrain
the 'feel' into my body and brain.
Love this thread- healthy mind food,
Peace,
Daniel E.
St. Paul, MN, US
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:20:15 +1100
From: Lindsay Rowlands <lrowland@metz.une.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re: Internal metronome
Apology: my mail program seems to impart its own diabolical idea of
line length so when my post comes back to me after being processed by
yahoogroups or whatever, I can't read it easily. So I'm sending this
again unchanged apart from line length. Sorry for the repeat but what I
have to say is heartfelt and it would be a waste if people don't read
it because of lousy formatting. Thanks, Lynzz
=================================================================
Let me first say that this response is not a reaction to or critique of
the dear Rev's post, merely a launching pad for my own thoughts, so
please take no offense.
On 13/02/2004, at 7:45 AM, Reverend R Clark wrote:
Greetings Folks!
What a marvelous thread, although my lack of formal training surely
permits me a quite limited grasp of what is being discussed especially
as concerns the time signatures. I probably have an idea what these
representations "feel" like and no doubt use them in my own way.
To perhaps further cloud the issue it seems the concept of
"micro-timing" must play a role in all of this and is probably why
some ones have spoken to the limited ability of time signatures to
represent actual play. Please correct me if I am wrong and playing
slightly early or late in relation to the pulse is responsible for
much of that which we loosely call "feel," isn't it?
I have to disagree and it is a common and simplistic deconstruction of
what is more than just deliberate loose timing. Now, no one, but no one
plays exactly - within microseconds - of a pulse regularly. This is due
to the limits of our capacity to accurately judge these small intervals
of time, both as players and listeners. So, while it can be shown (see
Rainer Polak) that in particular traditions there seems to be a
deliberate delaying of strokes on certain pulses, I wish to assert that
this does not equate to 'feel'. Certainly, aspects of the way time is
constituted in the music contribute to 'feel', but I argue that the use
of timbre, amplitude and pulse implication are equally as important.
Further, the way a player embodies a rhythm - moves their
hands/arms/head/torso/feet, etc in relation to the music - is also a
vital contribution to the apprehension of the subjective judgement of
'feel'. Similarly, our personal state of
wellbeing/openness/consciousness, etc at the time of listening are also
crucial. It seems reasonable to consider too that a single player is
more likely to inspire the notion of 'feel', while an ensemble of
'feel' players will give rise to something else.
The "handing" of particular rhythms as taught and insisted upon
by certain African Masters I've studied with, is often deliberately
awkward to assist one in maintaining the micro-timing, ...
I assert that handing, apart from allowing efficient and fluid
execution of rhythms, also has timbral significance. That is, mixing up
hands just doesn't sound right, measured against cultural norms.
I enjoy playing to a "click track" or metronome, playing with others
or even recorded music of all sorts, fitting in what I know to play.
When my hand comes down on the same spot in a musical phrase
consistently it's very comforting and confirms my feeling that I am
correct in my apprehension of a particular expression.
It is rather bleak that so many people seem to think that playing to a
metronome is a good and enjoyable thing. It may be a good drill and
exercise, but it isn't music - let's keep that in perspective. I also
find it depressing that it seems widely accepted that music is being
made when the right notes are played at the right time. Words are
certainly inadequate when attempting to relate abstract notions, but
I'll do my best. I really would like to get across the concept that
music is socially constituted, that is, people make music and they make
it best when making it together. This is so present in African music as
to be self-evident. African music has as its primary focus, the
interrelation of the musical parts, song, dance and the larger rhythms
of life. So, I believe we only 'get' it, when we play with others.
Playing and relating to a metronome is like taking a shower with a
raincoat! But if it helps in the process of arriving at the point where
we 'get' it, then it is I suppose, valid. Just make sure you don't get
stuck there.
In my workshops, I aim to expose repeatedly those around me to clear
and accessible playing. If necessary I will break a rhythm into
digestible fragments and use them as drills, but I never use counting.
It creates a distraction away from the focus of what the music means
and gets people caught up in states that preclude an interrelative
dialogue.
Surely I've said it here before and will again as I am constantly
saying it to myself at tough moments in my life, "I am open to this
being effortless, too." This Helps me more than anything else, save
repeating ultra-simple, one word mantras like "Love" or "Peace" and
the like, over and over
rhythmically.
I live to play music in a state of conscious mindlessness
(thoughtless). To be able to make music with people well allows me to
let go of the thoughts that create my private reality and to exist for
brief moments in pure musical and social harmony. That is where I also
reaffirm that words uttered or thought are absolutely unnecessary to
being and communicating. That's my effortlessness.
Much love, cheerz,
Lynzz
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:35:20 -0500
From: "Olushola" <balagi@starpower.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Internal metronome
Another way to look at music is in terms of spoken language or melodies. I
once studied with Yakub Addy, a Ghanaian drummer. He often talked about how
early in the morning his father to his friend's house to play proverbs on
the drum. At some point in time drumming was widely used to cite proverbs,
much like what is done in Indian on the tabla. I don't know how many
drummers know this today. In any event, I "suspect" that the rhythms we
study are remnants. It's just another consideration.
Personally I try to find the melody(ies), instead of looking at time. Poly
rythms are intriguing due to all the possibilities of melodies. There is a
name to describe this in baroque music, where the many melodies are seen as
concentric circles.
Olushola
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:07:14 -0500
From: Jim Brewster <jim@jimbrewster.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Internal metronome
These two questions seemed pretty complementary, so:
Reverend R Clark <clark@acceleration.net> wrote:
To perhaps further cloud the issue it seems the concept of
"micro-timing" must play a role in all of this and is probably why
some ones have spoken to the limited ability of time signatures to
represent actual play. Please correct me if I am wrong and playing
slightly early or late in relation to the pulse is responsible for
much of that which we loosely call "feel," isn't it?
At least part of it. As Lindsay said, there are a lot of factors that go
into "feel": pitch, timbre, attack, sustain, and timing. Also can be
lumped into the term "phrasing." A bell may play behind the beat, which
will tend to hold the ensemble back, while the bass plays ahead of the
beat and propels it, or vice-versa. This balance helps create a feel or
may act as a non-verbal signal to the other players or to the dancers.
An analogy is that the rhythm is a kite in the wind and the ensemble is
holding the string. They must collectively respond to changes in the
tension which keeps the thing aloft. Too loose or too tight and it will
crash to the earth.
On that note:
bones45991@aol.com wrote:
What a great topic and I am enjoying it thoroughly but I have to ask:
Is there really 'perfect' timing in drumming? And by that I don't mean
perfect perfect down to the mini-macro-micro-milli-second like from
some supercomputer, but I raise this issue because I have listened to
a number of West African CD's and played a metronome along with it to
find out what bpm(beats per minute) they're playing at and I find that
there are often discrepencies within the playing.
No perfect timing. Music played (not programmed) by people "breathes",
even when recorded to a click track. Often a change in speed goes
along with a change in intensity. Sometimes that's intentional,
sometimes not.
A more skilled ensemble will have more ability to manage and direct such
changes. Their tempo changes are more likely to be intentional and
deliberate, and to feel smooth and "tight."
Meanwhile in a circle of beginners the rhythm is more likely to
run away from them. They may stay together for the most part, but the
runaway rhythm train will quickly run out the dancers and run out of
steam!
The other side of that (and Dr. Bob's original point) is the ability
or inability of individuals to stay with the collective beat, to entrain
with the rhythm that is going on, whether it's speeding, slowing, or
basically steady.
Enough rambling for now...
Jim
--
Jim Brewster
jim@jimbrewster.net
http://www.jimbrewster.net/
"You have to be out of your mind to come to your senses."
--Fritz Perls
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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:51:35 -0500
From: AK
<aldaron@aaahawk.com>
Subject: Re: Internal metronome
OK, now _I_ want to "chime in" on this one. In tempo, of course.
I believe in the existence of an internal metronome or clock. My dad and I
have several times been talking about the same piece of music and then
minutes later both of us started humming a part of it- at exactly the same
place in the piece. How could this happen without us each playing the music
in our heads at the same speed?
However, I don't think this is exactly the same as being able to keep time
in an ensemble, because 1) the speed of the music is not necessarily
constant, and 2) actually playing a rhythm, as several of us have pointed
out, is not the same as just thinking or understanding it. So maybe we
should say, those of us who believe in it, that the internal metronome is
adjustable on the fly, but can also be used to govern one's self-criticality
in terms of whether one is playing in time with everyone else.
I believe rhythmic ability is largely developmental. There was a study which
showed that babies who are pushed in strollers don't develop as good a sense
of rhythm as those who are carried. So, what % of American babies are
strolled and what % carried; what % African babies strolled, what % carried?
Also, what's the likelihood that American babies grow up listening to the
complex patterns of African music? Our popular music reflects our rhythmic
development, even in Classical music. There is a developmental window during
which language ability and musical ability, are primed for maximization.
For instance, if a child only learns one language before the age of seven or
perhaps earlier, chances are that that person will have a strong accent
when/if he/she does learn a second language. The same is true of music. How
many African kids grow up playing drums? How many American kids grow up
playing anything more than a CD player? Motor and rhythmic skills in adults
_can_ be developed but it may take a very long time and one must start at
the beginning. You won't get far with a rhythmically underdevloped mind to
throw them immediately onto agogo in a Bateria ensemble, or even clave.
In this light, playing the drum is not just a motor skill. Hitting a drum is
a motor skill, yes, but making music is much more than that. It's like
singing: anyone can improve their vocal production, but singing is much more
than making a sound. Then again, the motor ability level affects how well
you can do the music.
>From the African rhythms I've learned from Africans, including what we might
call "4/4" ones, the division of the beats is more fluid than 4/4 or 6/8- or
more accurately 12/8. I've heard them teach a pattern in twelves but then
when it's fit into the pattern suddenly it's in eights. But the PULSE is the
same, and if there's any click-track-free music I know that keeps a steady
pulse (until it heats up or cools down, of course) it's African music.
I heard that six is the rhythm of Africa, not four. But it's the _cycle_
that's most important:
In a monospaced font:
|1 . 2 . 3 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . 10. 11. 12. |
is all possible in the same rhythm;
BUT ALSO:
|1 . 2 . 3 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . |
is also possible within the same cycle.
And all together:
|1 . 2 . 3 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . |
|1 . . 2 . . 3 . . 4 . . 5 . . 6 . . 7 . . 8 . . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . |
|1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . 10 . 11 . 12 . |
It's the length of the cycle that is the most important, and Africans split
it up easily into any of these subdivisions. (And not all the drums are
always in the same length cycle, either.) Listen to an Adama Dramé CD. He
even does stuff in 5.
No, music is not based on the exact pulse of a metronome, but much of it,
including drum music, has a pulse, and very often that pulse doesn't
vary for many minutes on end. Pulse is neither a product nor a generator of
the music, but rather an integral _part_ of it. And in African music, it's
often not even played, though it's danced- dununba for instance.
Given the poor musical training we Americans generally get, I think that
dissecting rhythms comprehensively is the best way for many of us to begin
to understand them. Some of us have to actively count every sixteenth note
for a while until we can "feel" the nature of the rhythm. We are all born
with the ability, but we aren't all grown up with it, and we can't assume,
especially those of us who are "naturally" good at rhythm, that all a
newcomer needs to do is listen to it long enough in order to understand and
be able to play a pattern. We all think differently.
In teaching people to count and play: Since "tu" sounds like "two" I would
suggest using one of the Afican rhythm-sound-sets, gun-go-do-pa-ta or
gun-be-de-pa-ta or whatever, then you don't have any confusion with the
numbers one, two, three, four, five, or six.
And I would suggest that since Americans have trouble with rhythms in three
or six, that we work on them much much more. We can always take them back
"home" to four at the end of the session. And once you've conquered that and
even figured out Dununba, try Sabar! Another world.
AK
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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:15:44 -0800
From: "Christine Hopkins"
<ch2yes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Internally anchored rhythmic sense
Another angle to add to the terrific discussion of sense of rhythm, internal metronome, etc. My experience as a dance/movement therapist has shown me that some people cannot move from an internally felt rhythm, but only in sync with an external rhythm. I think this is an important piece in ensemble playing, such as dunun music. One must be riding one's internal felt sense of the pulse/flow and be attuned with the other players' patterns simultaneously.
I don't know if I'm making this clear, but I have seen many people try to attune their rhythm to be different from the recorded music playing when I teach trainings in dance therapy techniques. Some people are not able to detach their movement tempo from the music and to move from an internal pulse that is different from (a/k/a "conflicts with") the external tempo. Strengthening this internal sense of rhythm impulse could be helpful to drum students and is quite a different skill from playing fine along with everyone else in the class.
I am also a long time dancer, including 20 yrs. doing African forms, and nowadays studying djembe and dununs for two years now. In modern dance there is something we call breath rhythm. This is when dancers are in exquisite unison but it's not to a regular pulse. Rather it's unison based on a felt sense of breathing and familiarity with the movement and visual attunement through peripheral vision and subliminal perceptual processing. When I drum I find that I tend to attune too much to other players who are on different sides of the beat from me. I have to be quite determined and conscious to hold steady through the feel changes in and out of the echauff, for example. Playing in the pocket when it's just right is so precise, even microscopically precise, whereas movement has more room to be attuned through other qualities besides time precision. This is hard stuff to talk about in words without body language! :)
Even so, I always believe that the best thing to get rhythm into bodies is to dance dance dance and free up all our innate kinaesthetic intelligence. I think bodywork would also be helpful, like massage and rolfing and martial arts and acupuncture, etc. etc. Anything to get flow and openness happening in the body and viscera. And, by the way, dance/movement therapists (
www.adta.org) could help people who are arhythmic find their natural rhythmic sense, which could sometimes be quite an emotional and healing journey. It's my belief that people who can't feel a steady rhythm have been blocked from connecting with their own bodies in ways that were probably painful and traumatic. This is one of the many ways that drumming heals and helps people find wholeness, aside from being awesomely good fun and intellectually complicated and incredible social infrastructure.
christine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:19:07 -0800
From: "Walter Alter"
<neuronjockey@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Internal metronome
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dylan Kosma"
<badenya22@yahoo.com>
Regarding the concept of an internal metronome or a
"good sense of time" as I like to call it. I have a
few points that I would like to bring up.
Dylan's point are spot on, in my opinion. Additionally, I've found that
simply getting in hours on the drum go a long way towards developing an
internal metronome. There is no substitute for practise and playing with
others. Within our two local drum circles there are two groups, those who
play a lot and those who don't pick up their drums between circles. The
ratio is about 1:4. If you live in an apartment or have close neighbors,
noise needn't be a problem, simply throw a sweat shirt over your drum head
and that will muffle it. Try to play hard enough to work up a sweat and get
your arms tired. Like body building- no pain, no gain. Playing at the edge
of muscle exertion discomfort is the way to build up stamina. Of course, if
you have joint or tendon pain that persists after drumming, don't continue
until it's handled. Good drummers can play all night long.
Every drum instructor will say start slow, ridiculously slow if necessary,
get the pattern down and then begin to speed up as you learn the pattern.
The go slow at first approach is the best, but along with this, one is
certainly free to dissassemble a pattern into its constituent elements and
work on them in little invented exercises. When I stumble in trying to play
a riff that pops into my head, I go to the part that involves the hand
coordination difficulty and work specifically on that hand motion, over and
over and over. Then I integrate it back into the larger pattern, see how it
feels, go back to the specific coordination exercise if necessary, back to
the larger pattern, and so on. Being able to zoom in on little micro
exercises, inventing related exercises, working on getting a riff under
control from varous entry and exit segues, all help in one's ability to
improvise lead patterns and to move from lead to backup easily.
Also I've been greatly helped by having a collection of CD's to play along
with. Several are rhythm loops, one of which is from the excellent Yankadi
djembe practice program, several are salsa music and several are African
drum CD's. If you have African drum CD's, don't be intimidated by the level
of expertise or fastness of the rhythm, just get in there, play along at
half time if it's too fast, listen for some accessable lead licks & try to
emulate them, be comfortable with your skill level in comparison, ie., don't
be overcome by a sense of failure, drumming requires a kind of courage.
Walter
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:28:45 -0000
From: "bor_slana" <bor_slana@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Internal metronome
Re: [Djembe-L] Re: Internal metronome
Well, practising with metronome has not much to do with getting the
right feel of the rhythm and understanding cultural and
phylosophycal meaning of music one is dealing with. And it isn't
about playing like robot, too. It is about getting good orientation
for solid, steady tempo, that's all. I think that solid (not
matematicaly 0,000 perfect!) tempo in playing any instrument not
only drums is esential.
Some musical genres are much more restricted in sense of locking the
tempo, like R'n B, most of pop music, modern dance music. While some
others genres aprove more freedom in tempo variation; rock and jazz
music for example. It depends on specifics of music. I realy wouldnt
get into them, now...but, rhythms and music from west africa shurely
go in this second group if I had to put pick one. But this doesn't
means that tempo one plays varies very obviously. It yust isn't
fixed sharp on for example 150 bms. African music must breathe more,
I guess even in terms of tempo.
Some beginers on drums here in west (europe, USA) have great
dificulties on getting this sense, because they don't play drums
sice they born (most of them I guess). So practising with metronome
is more or less efficient way for getting it.
Discussion on how the rhythm should be played in group, solo, sense
of dynamics, pytch, microtiming, loudnes...etc., goes far beyond, on
higher level, than term: tempo, learning tempo..timing. etc.!
Bor Slana
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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:04:19 -0500
From: "Ernesto Gutierrez Barrero" <ernestogut90@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Internal metronome
Learn taketina. is perfect for the rhythm.
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